מטולדו לישראל: המסע של שרה צפון לאמונה ועוצמה פנימית

Shalom everybody, once again, welcome to Hidabroot. The television in Israel, the channel that reaches more than eight million people in the world. And to this program, "Embracing the World", that seeks to connect the Latin American culture with the heart of Israel. Thank you very much for being here again. And well, the truth is that today I have the honor and the pleasure to host a very special guest. A woman who has traveled around the world, searching for her roots, together with her family. She lives in Israel and she is doing a wonderful job, not only for Israel, but for the entire

world. Welcome, Sara. -Thank you. Sara Tsafun, also known as Sara Chapán. Yes, yes, yes. Thank you for inviting me, thank you for having me. The honor is mine. I'm really very excited. I follow you on social media, you and your husband. And well, this is your chance to tell us the whole story, from Sweden, going through Latin America, the United States, and finally-- -Spain. From Spain, Toledo, you arrived in Israel. Tell us, Sara, what is the story of your journey through the world, and the arrival in Israel. Well, I mean, basically, for me it was very fast because I was already here when I

was 13. Therefore, I have been in Israel longer than I have been away. But, yes, these are my roots, it is an age in which life marks you in some way. So my family is Swedish. We speak Swedish at home, but we grew up in Spain, in Toledo. I mean, it's a pretty long story, but to make it short, you can say that, living in Toledo, in the city of... within the walls of the old city of Toledo, my dad begins a more serious process of searching for roots, in search of Judaism, and... And to connect with something he had to find. So, basically, I grew up with this. You can say that since I was two,

my mom started lighting Shabbat candles. Therefore, well, I grew up feeling Jewish, now I just need to put it into practice. But it's like my story. From there it was a long process. and after all, at the end of it all, something in me felt as if it was pushing me a little further than the rest of the family. Therefore, as you said, we went around the world, and we ended up in Israel, and that's how my story begins. That very early, at 16 I met my husband. and he says it was love at first sight. And you didn't believe him. I mean, I do, I remember that I had to take the decision, and I would

say, I'm crazy. I mean, I'm 16 years old, How can you decide who you're going to marry at that age? But... I asked my father if I was crazy or not, and he said to me, what do you think? I said, my heart says yes, my head says no. And then he said, well, do what your heart tells you. So we got engaged. - Good advice. We got engaged when I was 16 and he was 18. You got engaged? -Yes, yes. It was like, Daniel had it very clear. "Are you serious or should I wait?" That is what he told me. Incredible. And then, yes, we waited until I was 18 to get married. And then, I felt as if it started... Do

you know why your parents chose to go to Toledo? Why...? Why did they go from Sweden to Toledo? I mean, they were... I don't remember, you know. Yes, there was a year that, for example, I lived in Sweden, and it was a bit of a back-and-forth, and it was-- They met a friend with whom they started a business and so, a little bit like Mi Shamayim, I imagine, that is, Hashem knew that... something opened up there. It's like... They ended up there and looked for other places in Spain, but it opened there and we lived there. Totally, but also a land with a history and roots that are entirely

Jewish. Yes, yes, yes, Totally. And you lived in that history? Was it part of your life? Did you feel it? What? -In Toledo, the history of the Jews in Toledo, Yes. -Could you feel it? Is it different living there? -Yes, yes, yes. But, yes, I mean, I remember that I, I mean, it's strong, it's kind of funny even to say it. I introduced myself as Jewish. I mean, I went to a non-Jewish school, and when you say, well, I am Jewish, or something like that, I mean, in my... Tmimut, how do you say it in Spanish? in my innocence as a child, it's like I felt that I was. And people told me, "Ah, but the

Jews killed Jesus," or something like that. And I felt this sensation of being different from scratch. Since always? - Yes, yes. So, but the truth is that I didn't feel that it was difficult for me there. It was like, well, okay, that's pretty much who I am. In that sense, I think it was a little harder once I got here, you say, you got home, but suddenly you're a stranger. So, it's like you don't know things that you should know, either you have to re-learn them, or you have to... As if... It's like, at one point in the conversion I felt that I had to prove that I was a woman. More or less,

something similar. It's like someone is testing you, to see if you are worthy of being what you really are. So, of course, I had a hard time with that. But... And at an age... You reached 13 years old. Yes, I arrived at the age of 13. It's the beginning of adolescence. -Exactly. All the existential questions arise. Yes, yes. And you are living the struggle of proving that I am what I am. Yes, yes. How did you experience it in that moment? In that moment, I was very focused on my studies. I learned Hebrew very quickly, I immediately joined a school, and so on. And I took it very seriously, I

got good grades, I studied all day long, all the time. It was like, a teacher told me. He said: "Learn to have a good time." I mean, yes, I did things that I liked, Yes, I did play sports, I played instruments, things like that, but something in me was like very... very focused on something that keeps you... distracted, but at the same time, that is supposed to serve you. Getting good grades is supposed to do good in the long run, but yeah... A lot of demand from yourself. -Yes, yes. A lot of self-demand. -Always. Yeah. Well, but let's say that this brought you to be a multifaceted person,

talented, athletic, you liked it, you spoke several languages when you arrived in Israel, you learned Hebrew quickly. You also liked the arts, dance, ballet, mathematics, biology. Yes, yes. -What was it like...? I mean, you were a very talented girl, very serious and very self-demanding. Yes, yes. What was the good side of all this? The good side was that it was always clear to me. I did receive this from home, from my parents, very strongly, that we lived to serve Hashem. Therefore, yes, I did the best I could in this area, but this way of being, although today, that is, when I got married,

I had like a cut. I remember that during pregnancy I did nothing, absolutely nothing. It's as if I went to the other extreme, because I gave up plans to go to university. And my mother used to say, "Go study, don't stay at home." I am an only daughter, I have two brothers, so it was like... "Be successful, study, you can, do more," and so on. And something inside me said: "No, I don't want to go to college, I want to be a mom." I mean, I got married at 18, I wanted to be at home, start my family and so on. And I went a little to the other extreme. That is, it is a long process. Today, I do

see that I have a balance, just because, at one point, we started working, decorating events, and yes we did things, very practical, very enjoyable and that's how we lived. When we got married, we moved to Jerusalem, in the old city. So we did a lot of events in the old city, bar mitzvahs, weddings, in the Kotel tunnels, and they are boutique events, small, and very elaborate, so to speak. Therefore, yes, yes, I studied something, I didn't study at university, but yes I did something. But, for example, it was very clear that I was not going to work in an office and leave my children during

the first years of their lives. It was more to choose a job where I can take my children with me. And he brought me a nanny and I had the children with me when they were little, and I worked and kept them right there next to me, and I kind of carried it along, just like that. But was there a voice inside you that questioned that decision? Telling you: "Won't you study, and won't you be...? Yes, it was a process, it was very difficult. It was a process, totally. There is a voice inside that... that somehow does not let you evaluate for what you are in yourself. You have to prove it that you

are something beyond. You have to demonstrate a lot of perfectionism. It was a constant expectation, always? Yes, yes, yes. One can even say that it is generational. Okay. I had already heard stories from my great-grandfather, who was very perfectionist, that is, we carry it in our blood, somehow. I can even tell you that at one point I thought being a perfectionist was the best. It's like, it's good, it is, as they say, Lechatchila, that is, it is a priori. Okay. When does this attitude of seeking success change? I think it was when I started studying psychotherapy. I mean, at one point we

organised the events and it was quite hard, I already had three children. You work a lot for the holidays, for Shabbat, because people celebrate Chatan Bar Mitzvah or similar. And during this process, there are many points, but we are on a quest. My husband and I were very clear about it from the beginning, that we got married to serve Hashem. It was like... super clear. That is our goal in life and we are going for it. And the difficulty was just how to do that. This was our big question we were trying to answer. We weren't looking for our goal, we were looking for how to get there. And...

And this obviously has many prices, because, in a sense, he went to study in a Yeshiva, different Yeshivot, and went all in, and beyond, that is, he is a Ba'al Teshuva, who already has his own story, but it is a search. That is, he also came to Israel, he arrived when he was 18, when I was 16. We got married, I was 18 and he was 20, and begins to search further, he goes into the yeshivot. He complains that they don't talk about Hashem in the Yeshiva, and so, I mean, he searches more. So he goes to Kabbalah Yeshivot, and goes deeper and deeper, and I kind of let him go on this search quest,

and I accompany him, by his side, and I invest in him being the seeker, somehow. So, throughout this process, he went to different Rabbanim, he looked for one, looked for another, to give him a direction, because he came from a world that had everything materially, and he said there has to be something beyond that, something that made sense of life. So, his Teshuva process, he said, okay, I look for Hashem. He came to Israel, and Israel has its difficulties, but he begins his process. So he says: "It can't be, I've found my roots, and the people who connect with Hashem, and I have to find

Him. So he finds Him, but he feels like: "I want more. I want more, I'm looking for more, I'm looking for more." So... among all this searching, they recommend him to talk with the Rabbi of Breslav, who is a Tzadik. I mean, I have no words, he is really a Tzadik. And the special thing about the Rabbi is that he talks to the couple, that is, he does not let you come as a single man, you have to come with your wife. The first thing he said to Daniel was: "Study to be a rabbi, study practical things, study to be a Mohel, study to be a Shochet, study various things." So he continued his process,

and he told us to come back every six months, And in one of those times, until then it had been him and Daniel, suddenly he looks at me and: "And you, what?" And I ask: "What about me?" I'm fine. -"Yes, I'm fine. He is searching and I am accompanying him." So, somehow, he tells me that I have to start dealing with a Nefesh issue, that being a therapist and making flowers is very nice, but-- -It's not much. Yes, he says, "You have a talent, that if you don't use it, they will tell you in the Olam HaBa'a, that you could have helped many people and you didn't. But have you ever in your life,

before, had it occurred to you to be a therapist? No. well, I remember that when I had to choose a subject, that is, here when you get to Year 10, you have to choose the subject in which you want to specialize. I was very interested in psychology, but they told me not to go, because it was like very easy, like, a very abstract subject. It's not your profile, you are so talented. Yes, then they told me: "Better, you are good at physics, study physics, study this." And I said, well, okay. And my brothers also studied physics, so I said, well, I will go there, I was interested, I liked it, too,

I loved it. But something was calling me to this. I felt as if I had been searching for Hashem, but I didn't have the right tools. You don't know-- I mean, it's not just studying Torah, because life hits you with things. And it's like living with Hashem, not to talk about Him, is to live with Him. Therefore, you have to go inside, and it's like a search here, within... There's something inside. -Yes, something like that. So at first, I asked: "Me?" I mean, I was very scared. He told me, "The fact that you are afraid is perfect, "because it means you'll do it correctly, and carefully." Well,

then I went to study that. Ah, you listened to him. I listened to him because, well, I think the rabbi doesn't do this very often, but he said it to me with a lot of assertivity. It was like, that you know that... -You have to. I mean, they will get angry up there, if you don't. Like this. -Wow! It was like, he left me no choice. And it was like, it was... -We have to do it. One of the many somersaults that my life has taken, but it was like Hashem said it. There's no discussion. And yes, I did feel it, it was not because the Rabbi said so. I did feel something inside that it was right. And

well, then I started studying, and I went straight to study psychology according to the Torah. This is a program that, I mean, you don't study Freud that much, and all kinds of things that are not so Torah-compliant, but yes, they teach you to be a therapist, and you mix all the Torah, all the Hashgacha of Yahadut, all kinds of things that do help you connect with your... By clearing things in your Nefesh, you connect with your Neshama. I mean, at the end you connect with something inside. Because modern psychology, I don't know, if you, somewhere, in the world, go to a psychologist, and you

tell him: "I believe in God." He's going to tell you: "That's your problem." I don't know, there is everything. -There is no God. Yes, it's like, it's out of the picture. And I did understand that this had to be something that... that connected with everything. At that time, when you start studying, do you have children? Yes, I have three. My third daughter had just been born. You have a newborn baby. -Yes. And you start studying for years. -Yes. Three years, and then I did other studies, and now I continue studying, I always keep studying because you always learn more. But yes, now that you

mention it, well, my first two children are boys. And when Shirel was born, my first daughter, and I had never had a sister, so it was like: "Oh, I finally have a little sister." But I do remember that during pregnancy it was like, oh-oh, now, suddenly, they are no longer the boys who copy dad, now it is a girl who will copy me. So, now I have to take it more seriously. At that time, when she was born, I was 24 years old, and you say, okay, it's not anymore like: "Well, Daniel, you study, you lead, you guide the way, I'm behind, I'm following you, and we're in this together, but I trust you,

and so on." Now, suddenly, me. So, my Shamayim, within this, I start studying and from the beginning I say, well, how come they didn't tell me all this? This is the key. You can't connect with Hashem, if you do not heal your childhood traumas, if you do not rectify your way of connecting with your dad and your mom. I mean, There are three that are part of the creation of a person, the father, the mother and Hashem. So the parents are like the channel that you have to connect you upward. That is why the Torah speaks so much about Kibud Orim and Arichut Yamim, and all that stuff as if we all

have to heal something, in our childhood, with our parents. And we do not understand that this is what makes us connect more with Hashem, because no parent is perfect, and we sure make mistakes, all of us parents make mistakes. But I understand that God gave me these parents just because they had to teach me what I needed to know for my Tikun, for my Shlichut in this life. So for me, it was like, I finally have tools for this thing that I am looking for. I told you that it is like that goal that we had, but we don't know the way, now I'm starting to say... -It's this, it's this. Here, I found

mine. So on one hand mine, you found the on the other hand, it isn't easy. You start working on your perfectionism, you start working on your fears, you start working on the fact that... I mean, I arrived in Israel, I wanted to be part of it, so the automatic thing I did was to put aside the whole issue of being a convert, of my history. I put all that aside, for many years. Well, I know that there are people who know me who, if they saw this interview, they would say, "I had no idea." Wow. -Yes. But it was like a survival mode. I mean, you have to be part of it, don't be the odd monkey,

because then you won't be part of it, you'll just be the odd monkey. So you hide it, leave it behind and so on. And you start to open up and you start doing therapy, and go deeper, and what are your roots, and it is a process, that I follow up to this day. I mean, there are parts of me that are difficult for him. Still. -Yes. But I understand more and more that... I mean, not only do I understand, I understand that it had to be so, but I feel it every time. Do you understand? I internalize it. -Yes. And something in me accepts it and something in me... Not only does it accept it, I remember

once hearing a... Not so long ago, an interview with someone who had an impressive story, that she herself made Giur and so, but her goal was to be part of normal Israel. And something inside me was like: "But then why did Hashem made you be born there? Now, she was my mirror. Obviously, I mean, I saw her, and something didn't... but because it was... I was talking to myself. Not because I criticized her, but it was like... Wouldn't it have been easier, Hashem, for me to be born into a Jewish family and not do all this turn? So if Hashem made you go all this way, it has to be for something.

It's like, what...? -What for? What for? Exactly. I started to understand that this is not the case, Well, that's it, I've already reached my goal. No, this was for a reason. And that something is what... what we are developing every day, and I am on my way. I mean, I'm 32 years old, I still have my life ahead of me, but I'm on it. That is, I feel like I have more and more tools. Every time I go deeper, every time I understand that... that Avodat Hashem is through the Nefesh and the Tikkun Midot. To go in and heal traumas, internalize, and each time you feel a little more of the Shekhinah in

you, because you connect a little more with your being, with your essence. Wow. You are getting rid of things that don't have to be there, this carries you on, and allows you to go through the process. It is very deep, it is very deep in such a short time. -Yes. Why do you start this at 24 years old? Well, it's been 10 years. And you are already very connected to your roots, to your essence. And you're still continue. I still totally continue in it. But si there a part where you can say that you dreamed of saving children? Yes, yes. -How is that? All my childhood I dreamed of saving children,

that is, we were fleeing from somewhere, but I had children around me that I had to protect, and get them out of this place. And if someone saw us... I mean, bad. More or less. - Wow. They are dreams of survival. Always fleeing. -Yes. And have you ever asked a rabbi, have you ever tried to understand? Yes, but I didn't feel like I had found an answer... That sounded correct for you. Yes, someone told me, I mean, yes, I love children, and I was the youngest, I have never babysat in my life, And yes, I had a thing for children, whom I love, but... And when I became a mother I was completely

dedicated. At first I thought it was a bit off, and over time I started realizing that there is a point in me that-- I mean, we all have an inner child, everything that happened in childhood, all those traumas, all that it had to be this way, and now we have to deal with them and say why. And I do feel that, in a sense, now, since I started doing psychotherapy with people, I delve into that and help people save their inner child. To get him out of those places where-- Because what's going on? Something difficult happens to us and we lock ourselves away, so as not to feel the pain, so not to

suffer. And then that part of us stays locked in there. And it's a good thing, at least at first, because our inner child must survive, life goes on. However, when you're an adult and there's a part of you that says: "Okay, now it's your turn to go back and rescue who was left behind." Of course. And open those wounds and heal and... Grow up. -And that's it, yes. And do you think we all need psychotherapy, at some point? Yes. Yes, yes. And even more so today, when the level... I mean, most people don't starve, these days, at least in our society. And then, when you no longer have those needs,

it's time to move to the next level. I see it too, it is the preparation for the Geulah and the Nevuah, let it all return, B’ezrat Hashem, the Nevi'im, Beit HaMikdash, all that, it's like... That is, the fact that there were schools of Nevi'im, it is because there is a system, there is a methodology to be Nevi'im. Yes, obviously the Mesilat Yesharim, it talks about how you can do everything from the bottom up. And the last step is if Hashem gives it to you good and if not, no. It is no longer... But there is a... There's all that... -There's a job to do. There is a job for you, which you can

reach up to a level and then depending if Hashem speaks to you or not, that is if Hashem decides on this. But this job, I feel that working with the Nefesh, is the beginning of all that. It's the beginning of that. And those people who perhaps say: "No, I don't need to because everything is fine with me, and I always managed on my own, and I manage it. I don't have patience, not interested or I'm not going to pay." I mean, a lot of people don't do it because they don't want to pay, because they are not interested. What would you say to those people? I mean, you cannot force a process, that is

clear. But I do know that, I mean, I see that Hashem, with his great kindness, makes them go through difficult things, to awaken something inside, at the right time. You can't help a person who doesn't want to be helped. It's clear. So, if you're not interested, don't go. Don't go because I told you so. No. But if you're going through something difficult, don't run away from it. There is something that needs to be dealt with. That is, Hashem sends us the tests, the difficulties for us to move up levels. And there the question is whether we take that step or we wait for it to come back again,

one more time. I think there is no one who doesn't go through difficult things in life. We all have difficulties, and then, it is how much one wants to work on it or not. And obviously I'm not going to force anyone, but I do say, whoever has been there and felt the fruits of working within-- You don't know. -You don't know what you're missing. Totally -But, well... And I hear it all the time, especially in group therapy, that we haven't talked about it, we haven't gotten there yet, but... Nowadays I also do group therapies, there I do hear many feedbacks: "It changed my life, it changed my

life." Totally, well, let's talk a little about that. Yeah. So, a life of effort, a life of search and a life of striving for success, for finding that path to serve Hashem. You have your beautiful family with your husband who is a rabbi, you live in the old city of Jerusalem. Yes. You have your life dedicated to Avodah, to service, And suddenly, well, the pandemic arrives and a social media project comes up. And what happens? How did the idea come about? Why do they get there? Tell us a little about that. Well, you could say that just like I was in my process, Daniel was in his process. And

he didn't study psychotherapy, but he did go to therapy. I mean, it's something that he does... His mother went to the psychologist, his sister went to the psychologist. It was natural. -It was normal. Yes, it was much more natural for him, while in my family, it was like, not relevant at all, which other ideas could the psychologist offer? Stupid ideas in the head, pardon the word, like that. So that opened me up a little bit more too, and even more so if it is with a focus on the Torah. So he would go about his business and stuff like that. Part of this process is, as I said, you come to a

society in which, because of your fault, you accept that people don't accept you. Do you understand? I mean, I don't want to blame society, but something in you, like you want to be part and you leave behind sides of yourself to be part and my husband was also a little bit into that. And working with himself he understood that also, as we said, the process that he lived, that he has his story, his mother is Jewish, his father is not Jewish. He grew up like any other child, and at one point he wakes up and says, I seek to go deeper, and he reached his roots and Israel came and everything. So,

he was like hiding the part about his dad not being Jewish, and the grandmother would come to visit her grandchildren and they saw us on the street and thought, that our children had been stolen. I mean, it was like that. -Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure. And at one point he said, enough, why do I have to be someone I'm not or try to pretend to be something I'm not? Then he said, I understand that I have a Jewish side, I have a side that everyone else understands. And I have the ability to speak to both at the same time. And he feels like he needs to make a change, and the pandemic too, you are long

time at home and more... Well, the truth is that it was a little earlier. Of the pandemic? -Yes. And that is already his story, because Hashem sent us his partner, Hashem sent him to us in our house. Yes? Well, but it was seen that the hand of Hashem, when you know you're doing something for him, you see how things open up. -Totally. And you say, okay, I keep walking, okay, okay. Yeah. And at one point, that is, the carriage starts to go faster and faster, and all you have to do is not fall, hold on tight and say, okay, Hashem, you carry me. That's more or less my feeling, that the carriage

was going faster and faster, faster and faster, and go on with the twists, but oh well... What happens there is that he opened the YouTube channel a little earlier. He starts teaching things, and during the pandemic the channel explodes. Videos that, I don't know, had 1,000 views, now it has 300,000, 400,000, from here, more and more, the channel begins to grow. Do you remember which was the most viewed video? It was a psalm, he made a video of a psalm to stop epidemics. What do you mean to stop epidemics? Well, people were looking for what psalm can I read for this, so he explained, he

started making videos of psalms, and so on. And people loved it, and the channel exploded and then we started recording. Did you understand what it meant to be an influencer on a channel...? No, we didn't understand it at all. -It just came. We were a normal family. Very quiet, obviously, we attracted attention, because we are different, when you come from outside, but no leaders, no guides, no nothing. Children, with small children, with the chores of three small children, at that time, and so on. And suddenly we understand that, okay, there is here is something that people are asking for,

they need. That... I mean, it was like, you couldn't deny it, that something was going on here, it is an internal process. And Daniel with his process and me at his side, we tried to carry all this. So, at first, only he appeared on the channel, I set the camera on him, I put up with all his frustrations, saying: "This is not for me. I will never know how to speak in front of a camera..." And well, nowadays he is in front of the camera all day long. When you see it, you will see who was the one who had frustrations before. Yes, yes, yes, totally. And well, that was growing, we set up an

academy, because you know that on You Tube you don't, I mean, it's like... It's good for attracting people, But if you want people who will do a serious process, you can't leave them in... Therefore, the Zoom meetings start, more recorded classes start, because you say, why give the same class again? I'll just record it and let them listen to it. And we set up an academy, and this grows, and there are more and more courses, and I was more into writing content. Everything I was learning we would add it, translating it into a universal language, something open to everyone and we felt it.

Something was going on here, you can't say no to Hashem. Something opens up, you see people connecting, and you move on. And you know this world, you come from there, you've seen it, You know there are wonderful people there, people who are really searching. They are waiting for someone to please explain it to them, what does Am Yisrael have to give to the world? How can I connect with God, without having to get into all kinds of things that are not true? And well, when this started happening, it starts to move, it grows. Today the channel has more than a million followers. At the academy we

have thousands of students, and these are things that grow. It's impressive. It doesn't stop. -It's a company. Yes, it doesn't stop, and it grows faster and faster. And when the criticism comes-- Do the critics come? -All the time. The critics come? -Yes, yes, yes. From outside, from inside? From everywhere, even from within oneself. Those are the main ones. -Yes, yes. What am I ever doing? -Yes. What am I doing? -There is a lot of criticism. Yes. Also from within of all this, We felt that you can't do a lot of things outside and not do anything for Am Yisrael. You also feel a little bit

like, okay, fine. You got here, but you can't be helping outside, when you know there are so many people who need help inside. So, within all this, the option comes up, and to make a long story short, we moved to Raanana. They had just formed a Kehilah there, a community, and since my husband speaks Spanish, they were looking for a rabbi who spoke Spanish, and he had already finished his rabbinical studies, so he said: "Okay, like this I can give a part for Am Yisrael and for the world." Raanana is a city where there are many Latinos. Yes, because there is a Merkaz Klita, and then many end up

being there, there are many latinos. Mi Shamayim, the Kehilah did not open. We have very good friendships, but there is no Kehilah. -Okay. But the synagogue 100 meters from the house had no rabbi, and we started going there. After all the criticism that there was and everything, we were kicked out of the synagogue because of what we did on the internet and a bunch of little things that, sure, they hit you hard, but at some point, you have to say: "Okay, or what people say, or what I understand to be correct." And obviously you have to, you can't say, oh, what I understand is correct. I mean,

we went to Rabbanim, we went to ask, to ask for letters of recommendation, that is, look at the content, tell me if there is something wrong, to several Rabbanim, and so on, And within Judaism, as there are 70 faces to the Torah, Well, there are opinions like this, there are opinions like that. And then you understand that you are not wrong, you are not out of bounds, but there are people who will go against you. It's part of it. -It's part of it. No problem. Is it uncomfortable to live with this? At first, yes, at first, it hits you very hard. Did it hit you hard? Also, also. Yes, yes. It

was another somersault. To the point of saying: "No, look, let's go back to our quiet life." Yeah, it's like, why do we have to get into this? On the other hand, it's as if Hashem makes it so clear to you, that you don't have-- There's no way to stop. -Exactly. We even went to talk to the Rabbi again and he told me-- I mean, my question was like: "What is Rachamim Hashem? Staying in Raanana or return to the old city, to Yerushalayim, for my children grow up peacefully in a Talmud Torah, and all is fine." Clear. And he told me, no, in life you have to say Hineni. And I felt like, yeah, I'm

saying Hineni, I just don't know which one is Hineni. - Where? In which one is the Hineni? -Hineni, but where? For him, it was very clear. It was like: "No, no, you have to be there." Okay, so we keep doing it, and all. And you always have to ask for help, you have to ask. Always asking for help. But always have a voice inside, and obviously work on all these strokes. You may be bitter with society, or angry at what they said about you, or something like that. Or understand that Hashem is sending it to me, I have to see why it hurts inside me, and heal that within me. And when you heal it in

yourself, you get to a point where you say, thank you. I can truly say thank you at one point to the people who criticized me, because they helped me adjust things inside me, to find things that I had to work on, and Hashem used them. Totally. But I also think that... one of the greatest Mitzvot is Kiddush Hashem. And when you see the testimonies of people from other nations, kind people, who say: "It changed my life. This was all I was looking for. I've been lost for years. Where have you been until now?" Yes. What does Israel, what does Am Yisrael have to give? Yes. -How can we deny that

opportunity? Exactly, exactly. There is an answer there. - Yes, yes. Because it's people's lives. Yes, yes, and it is Tikkun Olam. -It's Tikkun Olam. We can't come here and think that... Well, all Goyim have no future, why teach them anything? Outside, only Am Yisrael. No, that is, they have a Tafkid, Hashem created you for a reason. Just like there is the Cohen, who has to work in Beit HaMikdash, and there is Levim, and there is Yisrael, and there is... the rest of the world, and they have a function. They have something that we have to give them our light, be a channel of light for them. I

don't know, it seems very racist to me. to think that all these people has no connection to Hashem. They also have a Tzelem, that is, they have the form of humans. They are created in the image of God, at his level, just as the Cohen has another image. Each one with his own thing, there are men, there are women, and each one when he accepts what he is and does not try to be something else, that's where you do what you have to do, and the world becomes a wonderful place. Totally. And when some people might think, well, this has become a field of conversions, people want to become Jews, people

are seeking out Judaism in a massive way. What happens at that moment? Does this present itself? Do you feel it a little? Yes. We do not do conversions, zero. Because... We are obviously not against it, because... Yes? -Yes. My husband doesn't go around saying that I'm a convert, but he does tell people that I'm not against it, because I have it in the family. That is, like... but we have seen conversions that do not end well, which is like the American dream, which is a search that the answers were not necessarily in becoming, So what we do is, We help people to an internal do process in

which you treat your pains, you deal with your faults, you search internally, and when you connect with something inside You already have a very clear idea of whether you have to do it or not. And also if I don't give you the options, you will find them in another way because it is your thing. But I'm not going to promote something that may not be right. I don't believe in mass conversions. It's not the mission. -No, it's not the mission. It's not that way. Exactly. It's not going that way. And I also think there is a change in the sense that Am Yisrael returns now to Eretz Yisrael, and while

we were in the Galut, Am Yisrael was a bit in coma mode, in which he survived, but did not give its light to the world. And now it is a new era, which is obviously a process, but more and more we are at home, again, and then you can focus on not only surviving, but doing what you should be doing. And then, maybe before that wasn't seen, how are we going to teach the goyim? They are the ones who persecute us, they are the ones who kill us. But today there are people who persecute us, but it's not the same. It's like there are many people who do love us. Yes, he does expect us to please explain

it to them, that we do help them and that is no longer the case, It's like when you're in your right place you get to do, what you have to do, and I feel like that's the phase nowadays. So I understand all the criticism there is about this. For all the history we have suffered as a people, but I understand that now it is a different time. There are also Rabbanim who speaks about that. Rabbi Ginsburgh speaking of the Four Revolutions of the Torah, and the third is that the woman studies Torah and the fourth is that the Gentiles study Torah. I mean, there is the idea, Rabbi Kook also talks

about that, that we should not change them, we should let them be what they are. If you look for it, you can find it in Hazal, and that's what Daniel, as it is his job, he says: "Look it up, check it out." It takes a lot of bravery, Sara, and a lot of courage. And a lot of strength, where does the strength come from? It's like it's not mine, That is, I am a secretary, It's not my project, it's Hashem's, and I do what I can. But if Hashem wants to close it and it is not the way, I can drop it off, tomorrow if necessary. But something inside me feels like... -You have to go. Yeah, you can't

say, if Hashem commands you to do something, you cannot say, No, I don't think so. How can you not think so? I'm not asking you. It's like... I don't feel like I have courage, I feel like I rely on Hashem. That's what gives me strength. Because if it were up to me, forget it. I mean, how do you know if you're doing things right? Who are you to decide what? But if Hashem opens doors, then you better do what he asks of you. That's my feeling, I don't feel brave at all, I feel like... I serve, I do not direct. I am being directed and I follow orders, more or less. And today, if you had to talk

to her today, to this 13-year-old girl, who came to Israel... Yes. -What would you say to her? Wow. It's a good question because it's a mixture. On the one hand, I feel that... No, she should have lived what she lived, So, I'm not going to ruin the story for you. But maybe I would tell her: "Believe in yourself more." I have worked through everything that happened and I understand that it had to happen, that I wouldn't change anything right now. I feel a bit like that. Yes I would tell her: "Don't worry, it's going to be okay." I mean, something like that. As saying, it is a process, It

hurts, but Hashem is there, and keep going. More or less. As if reinforcing her, that you are going to live what you have to live, and it will be worth it. And that girl would feel good with these words? Let's see, I would have to ask her. Probably. -I think so. Yes, it would help her a little, to be less concerned with survival. And she may have made the processes faster. On the other hand, it was still fast. It was very fast. So now I know what I would change. I would perhaps change a wound in me, that would make her feel calmer. Although I have worked on it, it is a little more peaceful

with that. I do feel that-- That allows you to enjoy. Yes, that allows me... Yes. -Life, the processes. Yes, and that has been a job, too. When you grow up thinking that you have to serve Hashem, that everything is for Hashem, then sometimes you can fall into the mistake of thinking that you can't enjoy things. You are so much in a Shlichut that you don't-- There is no time for enjoyment. -Yes. And this... You could say it is one of the themes that I have also worked on myself. Nowadays, I play volleyball, and I dance and do things that I like. And I understand that it is part of Avodat

Hashem. One tends to think that if I don't take care of myself I'll invest more in what's important, and it's the other way around. The more I take care of myself, and the more I look out for myself, and the more I love myself, and I accept myself more and more... I give myself affection, but I can give affection to others. If I don't pamper myself, I'm not going to pamper my children. If I do not give myself, I cannot give to others. And it's a bit like that, as they say, threaten your neighbor as you threaten yourself. Well, it starts with you. It starts with you. -Yes. There is a part that

there is a real enjoyment that you told me and that's when you're a mom. When babies are just born. -Yes, yes. There is a state of total acceptance there. There are no demands here, there is no perfection here, everything is perfect here. Here I am and we connect and all that, how has it been? Yes, yes. For me, a newborn is the best. It starts from birth. Now you have five. -I have five. Baruch Hashem, you have five. And births are... It's like better than Yom Kippur. So, for me, Yom Kippur is positive. - I hadn't heard that. Childbirth is better than Yom Kippur. That feeling of... Maybe

there are people who don't connect with Yom Kippur. But when you have a good Tefillah, that you are there and you feel that you are beyond, for me, childbirth is a bit like that, that you connect with Hashem because you learn to flow, you learn to work, to use the pain to let go. Pain is also something I talk about a lot. The key is not to be afraid of pain. It's not suffering, it's not the same. Pain, pain makes me grow, and if I know how to use it, it's a springboard in my life, all the time. Wow. So, births are that. It is going through the pain and being in the experience beyond. I mean,

Daniel says, you're leaving. When you are giving birth, you are not fully here. You are there, in Atzilut. And, to conclude, what would you say to the audience who is suffering? Well, we all suffer, we are going through a hard time, that are going through a challenge, life is a test. What would you say to those people? I would tell them that... suffering has a reason. It's like God doesn't want to make us suffer for anything. Hashem has a purpose. It's as if you wouldn't get burned if you put your hand in the fire, then you would no longer have a hand. It's like something that has to awaken

in you and unfortunately only pain pushes us to do. So it's a gift that something hurts, to improve, and if we know not to run away from it, that most of us flee, It's like the best teacher, and obviously you need help. If you weren't taught how to deal with pain it would be very difficult. And when you are in pain without accepting it, it only hurts more and more each time and you only hurt yourself. There are people who say, I am in pain all the time, all the time in bed, all the time crying, all the time bad. Yes, but it's not that pain, that's a more external layer, it is like: "I don't

accept that it hurts me." When I am in pain, I am calm. It hurts, but I'm calm. It's like an ability to flow, you enter, you go through it, you feel it and it falls apart, and you go to the next level and it's your best teacher. Wow. Spectacular. -Yes. Well, Sara, it's been a pleasure. We could stay here talking for hours. -Yes, yes. A real experience of spirituality, I would call it, a spiritual life, a sincere and pure search, for the service to Hashem, and a search, too, of the roots, and of that true internal place which is an example for the whole world, not only for Israel. So I'm

deeply grateful that you shared it here. Thanks. you. -Thank And I hope we have more opportunities like this. With pleasure, yes. God willing, yes. -Thank you. To you. Thank you very much.